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jnyutah Mar 28 2013 at 2:39 PM	here's what pat has to say about ZTFS... "you might want to check the archives. as far as "alienation" goes, with all due respect, anyone who is alienated by that record (or any of the others for that matter) is welcome to their own musical world that we all are in the continuous process of defining for ourselves - whether listeners or players. i guess my point is that no rationalization is necesary when it comes to playing the music that one likes."
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jnyutah Apr 29 2013 at 12:20 PM	i sometimes see or feel them as a physical thing especially live, thats why i like small clubs or theaters,listening on headphones i see them as like miniatures, thats why having a room vibrate is a lot better than phones of course there a plus sign to phones too, if one thinks about it the sounds are going to have different shapes, i like to call songs sound sketches
hman01 Apr 28 2013 at 6:13 PM	"eric" -You bring up some good points about hearing this kind of music live.While,I’ve never been able to get into ZTFS or SOTF,I would imagine that a live performance of this music would be quite interesting.That thought never occurred to me until reading your post.Thanks for writing about your experiences.
eric Apr 28 2013 at 3:27 PM	I don’t believe Pat ever played any of ZTFS live but I saw two SOTF shows and have never experienced anything like it before or since. The sound was very dense and loud. I experienced what I believe are standing waves, and difference tones - Tartini tones - a physical presence that I can best describe as the room changing shape or sound pressure areas vibrating and moving like geometric shapes in the space. At first this kind of freaked me out! Then I realized what might be causing the experience. Now, visually it did not change shape, but the air, the sound in the room did take geometric shape and move, instantly, from chord to chord changing size, shape and location. (I was not under the influence of any consciousness altering plants etc.. in case that comes to mind for anyone. These are clear headed perceptions.) So for staters I’d strongly suggest these recordings be played on the best quality gear you can find and at high volume. BTW - Wikipedia has a good article about Tartini tones and Harry Partch’s music uses instruments tuned in just intonation which produces, to my ears, lots of overtone harmonies, if that’s an accurate term. BTW I am no expert on any of this, I just love sound and music and like to learn about it.
saran Apr 24 2013 at 4:09 PM	I don’t think one needs to listen to it more than to hear it.
mountain Apr 16 2013 at 2:22 PM	Although I do not reach for it often, I do appreciate the impact it has created in generating some very interesting discussions and debates about the project and music in general. From that perspective, its genius. There are many artists who have gone beyond what is general accepted to discover new territories. Experimentation and exploration is always a risky business, but vital. Many times, the main stream steals or borrows pieces of those discoveries for their own use. ZTFS is in my collection along with many other pieces from those brave explorers such as Fred Frith, John Zorn, Robert Fripp, Sonny Sharrock, Brian Eno, Philip Glass, Steve Reich...the list goes on. Some times they discover gold and sometimes its just dirt, but the journey to explore something new is what life should be all about. In my own opinion of course.
jnyutah Apr 13 2013 at 11:24 PM	from pat on ZTFS from this book i have an emotional response to music, pat methenys secret story "i want to grab different pictures of melody and get away from diatonic sound toward pure sound where it stops being about notes, and is about sound instead. the first track of Zero Tolerance’,I’d put that on the top five of all the things i’ve recorded."
franksexton Apr 08 2013 at 10:20 AM	part 1 reminds me alot of Electric Guitar Phase from Steve Reich: Triple Quartet
hman01 Apr 05 2013 at 12:00 PM	ZTFZTFS
Dylan03 Apr 03 2013 at 6:24 PM	I think his album with Derek bailey is a better much better album because of simply the group interaction. They really are both very good though.
naut Apr 01 2013 at 10:51 AM	As noted elsewhere, this record is great for a candlelit dinner on a rainy night, or your parents’ fortieth anniversary gathering. It’s also good for getting cranky infants to sleep.
akakak Mar 31 2013 at 7:57 PM	I have said this before, but I have always liked this record. I am a big fan of artists that explore. When put together with the rest of Pat’s solo recordings, it adds another dimension to his playing and conception of sound and music. Chord wise, there are some dark harmonies here, but there is also something celebratory here also. Something uplifting. It is another example of what music can really be, something interesting to challenge your concepts of what you think it should sound like. This is definitely a hard listen, but a rewarding one in my view. I also always sensed that the Sign of 4 project was an extension of this, a dense textural concept of music emanating from the things Derek Baily was exploring. It is interesting that there are still discussions about this all these years later - Yes, this is art at its best!
fredsimon Mar 29 2013 at 6:13 PM	rbslscpa, if ZTFS "does absolutely nothing for" you, fine. Hey, I appreciate the artistry of the album but don’t listen to it that often myself. But to say it "still sucks" is to extrapolate your own personal taste beyond its boundary. There’s a huge difference between not liking something and saying that it’s not good ... does it "suck" because you don’t like it, or because you think it fails to successfully execute its artistic intentions? There’s plenty of music I don’t particularly care for but can nevertheless recognize its artistic worth, and in those cases I simply say "it’s not my cup of tea" or, as you first said, "it does absolutely nothing for me." But I don’t go further to say that, therefore, it "sucks" ... the assessment of artistic worth must be based on more than just personal taste.
rbslscpa Mar 29 2013 at 5:12 AM	I am a huge pat fan, have every cd he has ever played "a note" on (as far as i know). If this cd helped him write other songs I like, great, but ZTFS does absolutely nothing for me. I did give it another chance after 10 years, still sucks ;-)
Dylan03 Mar 28 2013 at 8:07 PM	I’ve always thought it was an interesting record to say the least. I go back and forth between liking it though. i think it does paint a sort of cynical picture of the world that is very interesting and everyone once in a while it is a perfect listen.
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