Pat Metheny : American Garage

SUBJECT:	Antonio Sanches’z new album "New Life" Back to Subjects
carlosportocarrero Feb 15 2013 at 3:56 PM	I just found out Antonio’s new album called "New Life" will be released on February 26th. I found this on youtube. Sounds great! I can’t wait to get the album! http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=sbD6ryBkcCE
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aloc Mar 20 2013 at 2:58 AM	Thana Alexa has a nice voice indeed. From what I’ve understood, she’s been collecting money thru donations to produce her debut, which would feature Antonio aswell. As to the whole Unity thing: well, there are other great "new" singers whom, in addition of possessing a great voice, also play a vast arsenal of instruments...
akakak Mar 19 2013 at 8:28 PM	What a wonderful singer on Antonio’s new album. Than Alexa - Amazing vocals on new life. I was thinking, how amazing it could be if she was added to the unity band!
bluepno Mar 19 2013 at 5:25 PM	I am impressed...full circle and no one invoked Godwin’s Law...although 68 posts is reaching the limit...now back to Antonio’s album...
djbinder Mar 19 2013 at 2:42 PM	See there, jnyutah? On that we absolutely agree! :)
jnyutah Mar 19 2013 at 1:04 PM	i would say uprising and evolutions is an homage to coltrane and his message moving it forward to now listen to day trip where on some tunes antonio is channeling some serious elvin jones
METHenyaddicted Mar 19 2013 at 12:00 PM	David Binney is so awesomely cute - if I knew that I would have listened to ’Graylen’ sooner. Oh yeah, the new cd. I ordered based on the comments but it’s taking a long while to get here. Meanwhile here is a track I found from the cd - I think it’s no. 3 on the playlist performed at a jazz club. Excellent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUC98v_r-yc&list=UUyKaaVFqQEqdEu0OheOUwJA.
harn Mar 19 2013 at 8:22 AM	Just to go off at a tangent here; Antonio Sanchez has a new album out, any thoughts?......
Tom Rudd Mar 19 2013 at 7:35 AM	jnyutah, implying that dj or anyone else here in the Garage is "very dense or dumb", is a personal attack. It may be your opinion, if so keep it to yourself. There is a reason why you have gotten very few posts on your ZTFS thread, No one here want to have a dialogue with you. Until you develop some sort of internet social skills, take it somewhere else.
djbinder Mar 19 2013 at 7:05 AM	OK, back to the music - folks who posted that are absolutely correct (though I appreciate the ongoing support, folks, truly). Dave Binney tells me they’ve been touring South America and it’s been going absolutely fabulously. So let’s start with a question, for those who’ve heard this record and Antonio’s previous two: do you also feel that he’s made a serious leap forward as a writer? Acknowledging he’s always had great groups on his records, it just seems to me that this is quite a step forward in his writiing ) (something Metheny also acknowledges in his liners, so JNYUTAH, if you disagree with me, perhaps you’ll agree with Pat?). So, folks. How do you feel about the writing? Someone posted, way back, that the first track, being very Post- Coltrane, put them off at first. FVor me, quite the opposite , as it simply presented a different side to Antonio....something that continues throughout the record, as I think the writing here is also more eclectic and diverse than anything that’s come before. Thoughts?
carlosportocarrero Mar 19 2013 at 5:45 AM	Depressing...
Antoñete Mar 19 2013 at 4:49 AM	jnyutah, for what I’ve read, I think that you are un poco gilipollas, bastante tontoloscojones y te veo cierto retraso mental y una considerable dificultad de comprensión, but that’s not being unkind, it’s just an opinion.
blisterfree Mar 19 2013 at 2:43 AM	An unwitting troll, or one in self-denial, or one who plays bait and switch, is still a troll. The only solution is to stop feeding him. Otherwise the troll wins and everyone else loses. After 57 replies, it’s time to cut our losses, eh?
fredsimon Mar 19 2013 at 12:51 AM	When you call someone "dumb" "dense" or "stupid" you are being unkind. And this childish stonewalling isn’t fooling anyone here, except perhaps yourself.
jnyutah Mar 18 2013 at 8:18 PM	its not unkind behavior, how can giving my opinion be unkind? you must be delusional, by all means cross the street,
fredsimon Mar 18 2013 at 5:19 PM	jynutah, I’m gonna try again to help you understand what the problem is here ... of course you’re entitled to your opinions about musical issues -- everyone here has repeatedly said that -- but you’re not entitled to rewrite reality. When you try to do so by saying "they ostracize those who don’t agree with their opinions" you are just plain incorrect ... no one here is ostracizing you for your musical opinions, it’s for your aggressively unkind behavior. And when called out on it, blustering and stonewalling does not help. Take your own advice: you seriously need to take a look at yourself. Frankly, I’m usually more than happy to discuss esoteric musical issues; it’s part of what I do as a teacher. But your behavior is so off-putting it makes me want to cross to the other side of the street instead.
thehague Mar 18 2013 at 5:05 PM	C’mon guys, it’s been enough. Let the music speak. That’s always the truth.
Antoñete Mar 18 2013 at 5:02 PM	You guy seriously need to take a look at yourself
carlosportocarrero Mar 18 2013 at 4:53 PM	It’s a shame that what started as a constructive post about Antonio’s great album turned out this way. The actual posts about the album and the music were very few compared to all the bickering. Talks volumes about human nature...
jnyutah Mar 18 2013 at 3:53 PM	and i’ll quote bob dylan from all along the watch tower "so let us not talk falsely now the hour is getting late"
jnyutah Mar 18 2013 at 8:54 AM	theres nothing to apologize for, you guys seriously need to take a look at yourselves
harn Mar 18 2013 at 8:24 AM	Just skimmed through all these posts, it’s given me a really good laugh during my lunch break! I have yet to find out anything about the album in question though so I’ll be checking out djbinder’s review later on as they are always incisive, informative and well written. The whole thing has reminded me of a saying that a friend of mine used to use regularly; never argue with an idiot as they will only drag you down to their level and then beat you on experience!
djbinder Mar 18 2013 at 5:06 AM	I’ve no issue with you taking issue, jnyutah, it’s HOW you do it, as Fred says, I’ve not called you dumb, idiot or any of the other things you’ve called me. As for moment by moment analysis of TWU and Elling, it’s pretty hard for me to do from an airport lounge. But again, most music fans don’t want that kind of analysis....perhaps if I wrote for guitar player, say; but at All About Jazz, most readers are not musicians so are looking for explanations of the music in terms they can understand, you don’t like it, or you don’t agree, no problem. But treat me with some respect, respect that most people deserve, and apologize for not disagreeing with me, but doing so in a rude and offensive fashion, and I suspect you and I may have lots to talk about...even if we disagree. That is not the issue; treating people with respect is. I am sorry you are schizophrenic, but perhaps you should not post when go you are either off your meds or not feeling well. That does not give you carte Blanche to treat people badly. Sorry, but I have a family member who is seriously bipolar, and they would never hide behind their illness when it comes to bad behavior...they would apologize for it. Because I do have someone in the family with a mood affective disorder, you do have my sympathies, but bad behavior simply is bad behavior and if you go off the rails, then at least an apology for that would, as Fred says, go a long way. But i do feel for ya, it’s a tough, tough illness and the treatment is sometimes worse than the illness.
jnyutah Mar 17 2013 at 9:08 PM	plus if you post your reviews and plug them, i have every right to call it as i interpret it, so much for all inclusiveness you can disregard me all you want it does not matter remember there was a time when everyone thought the world was flat go ahead and berate me for speaking freely so much for jazz
jnyutah Mar 17 2013 at 8:59 PM	with all due respect mr simon, i can use those words if you don’t agree then go ahead and jump on the bandwagon, I’ve posted as i said before actual fax based things in regards to mr binder and all to no avail, let me see adults start wars, they fleece the poor, they kick a man when hes down, the ostracize those who don’t agree with their opinions, it doesn’t matter if I’m taken seriously because i know where I’m coming from and believe me I’ve posted some stuff after careful listening and not taken seriously, plus i am a diagnosed schizophrenic i filter things differently please stop trying to evade the truth.
fredsimon Mar 17 2013 at 8:04 PM	jnyutah wrote: "[djbinder has] less tact than me" ----- Really?! When did he ever call you "dumb" "dense" or "stupid," as you have called him? You behaved poorly, and then when people call you on the behavior you don’t even own up to it, much less apologize. C’mon, be a mensch and do the right thing, especially if you want your musical opinions taken seriously.
hman01 Mar 17 2013 at 1:11 PM	Ask James Bond how he liked his "martini".
jnyutah Mar 17 2013 at 11:42 AM	and for the harmonic similarities its somewhere in the way up not at the tempo changes i was talking about
jnyutah Mar 17 2013 at 11:33 AM	they used his voice leading books as a reference when they were writing the way up, what do you think about the tempo change in the way up from the start bar 1 quarter note 162 bpm to 122 bar 177? check out the tune timeline and kurt ellings the beauty of all things, hear any harmonic similarities? and what do you think of section K1 bar 406 to 425 where its rubato? tell me whats your take on part two at wich is at 141 bpm from a previous 172 bpm preceding that , then listen to part 3 at around 12 minutes in listen for maybe 30 seconds tell whats happening there please, its pretty real not an adjective, and you have less tact than me, im happy that you have a public outlet aaj to write what you think about music and also a forum where what u promote is untouchable thats great, i don’t have that I’m not asking for that, maybe if you really look at how your reacting. I’m pretty sure it was you about martini cause they got real defensive like you did, any way keep on writing and check out that stuff i will surely check out newlife and give you a scathing review cheers
djbinder Mar 17 2013 at 7:43 AM	And I assure you it was not me re: Martino (not Martini!). I love him to death, and was thrilled with the Joyous Lake reunion. Not sure what your bug is on that front, but you are simply incorrect, as I was not writing about jazz at the time of that release. I only began writing and getting published in 2003, started at All About Jazz in 2004. So you are ascribing things to me that are simply not mine. What do you want to talk about? That Mick Goodrick’s approach was hugely influential on Pat’s early days and so, while his own voice clearly emerged, it’s still part of his DNA? What do you want to discuss about metric and tempo shifts in TWU? What specifically? Why? That’s an unusual question, but such things are usually done for reasons that have to do with compositional development (especially in longform pieces), harmonic tension and release (a big part of TWU’s overall MO I think)...what exactly is the question beyond why? What are your thoughts. Let’s start there.
djbinder Mar 17 2013 at 7:38 AM	Never said you were dumb. But if you’ve yet to actually discuss MY review with any intelligence...largely because you cannot if you’ve not heard it? How can you argue my assessments if you’ve not heard the musci which is being assessed? I make no complaints against Antonio’s early recordings (I say they’re good records), but that he’s grown on this one. If my explanations (not defensive, but trying to address your attacks with reasoned arguments) don’t make sense, then discuss them. And yes, I’’m quite familiar with the music you mention, but again, in a generalist jazz site like All About Jazz you tend to avoid getting into technical matters too much, as the purpose is the expose the music to a broader audience, not just musicians. If none of this makes sense, and if you still just hate critics on a knee jerk - if you don’t feel the need to read us, then fine, i’ve no issue. I also have no issue discussing things like adults. What I’ve no time for is blanket generalizations and personal attacks that, in at least one case (Martino) are absolutely untrue. Get your facts straight, discuss and disagree with respect and like an adult, and we can have plenty to talk about but your offensive "do you know this? Do you know thast" approach is not conducive to real discussion and debate. I could do the same to you, but where would we be? I agree with you 100percent that if we all loved the same thing and didn;t disagree, music wouldn’t be what it is. But that doesn’t mean that being disrespectful and aggressive is proper. You can debate - even heatedly - without making it personal, as you did from your very first post. If you’d be prepared to back off from that stance and just discuss the music, I’d be all ears...and would have no problem with you disagreeing with my assessments. That’s never an issue; it’s all about approach. Didn;t your mother tell you "you catch more flies with honey"?
mountain Mar 17 2013 at 7:34 AM	The upside on the troll posts is that it has engaged some folks to provide some interesting insights to how thy evaluate music and has created some passionate postings to the AG that has been somewhat flat of recent. Looking at the glass half full of course.
thehague Mar 17 2013 at 3:14 AM	Aha, now it’s clear: mr jezusnyutah wants to be a critic himself, but isn’t doing quite as good as real critics.
jnyutah Mar 16 2013 at 9:28 PM	ok for example lets talk about the way up why do the have metric modulations in different sections and why did they choose those different tempos? why did they use mick good ricks voice leading books as a reference? have you listened to kurt ellingtons the beauty of all things and then listened to the way up? have you heard whats going on in the end segment? tell me I’m dumb and a troll
jnyutah Mar 16 2013 at 9:13 PM	I’ve discussed previous critiques before on a factual basis and an understanding of the music presented, all to no avail, im pretty sure it was djbinder about martini i remember that disticinctly because i studied the music.
djbinder Mar 16 2013 at 7:00 PM	Jnyutah, I’d be happy to engage with you on points. Point one, I wasn’t the critic about Martino because I wasn’t a critic at that time. Second, you can say what you will but it has to be actual arguable points not ’I don’t agree with you, even though I’ve not heard the album because I hate critics.’ Listen to the record, then read what I’ve said, you disagree? I’ll be happy to. Ave an adult, civil discussion with you. Problem is, it doesn’t appear that you are any more capable of that than you are getting names spelled correctly, I’m done with you, unless you want to really discuss and not just come out with an attack that’s based on no facts, no reality, just your supposition.
fredsimon Mar 16 2013 at 6:14 PM	jnyutah, no one has a problem with your differing opinions on the relative merits of the music. As I first wrote, I do have a problem with you calling someone "stupid" "dense" and "dumb" just because you don’t agree with them. Hopefully you can discern the distiction.
blisterfree Mar 16 2013 at 2:39 PM	The Kenny G of forum trolls roams among us. All blowhard, no ideas. Look at me.
jnyutah Mar 16 2013 at 10:41 AM	im pretty sure it was you, anyway i don’t need someone to convince me one way or another about an albums merits or not, if your a critic in a public forum then expect to be criticized about your critiques youve been way to defensive about what u have written and it has nothing to do with the music because it would still be there, and im not a troll just because i don’t say what you would prefer or agree with your critique its crazy how u automatically go haywire if someone doesn’t like what you wrote, good music wouldn’t be around if we were all pleasant to each other.
Chris Digger Mar 16 2013 at 7:07 AM	To yossarian: maybe Vinnie Colaiuta could drum the PMG-style.
djbinder Mar 15 2013 at 8:03 PM	On more thing: yes, you’ve the right to say anything you damn well please, but if you talk trash, you can also be sure that others have the right to call you out on it..and ask you to support your arguments, not just make blanket generalizations because some critic dissed a record you liked 15 years ago.
djbinder Mar 15 2013 at 8:00 PM	Wow, jnyutah. First, I don’t know what critic you’re talking about re Pat Martino (not Martini, just btw), but it sure wasn’t me - I happn to be a huge fan of Joyous Lake as well as Stone Blue, where he reunited most of the original group and delivered a kick-ass set. More to the point, I am absolutely gobsmacked to learn that you’ve come railing out against critics in general and me in particular when you’ve not even heard the album! Maybe if you did, you might actually agree with me, but either way, you’d at least have some ammunition for a debate. You question my assessments without hearing the album to know if they make sense or not? Sounds to me like whoever said you were a troll is spot on. I did not belittle Miguel Zenón (not Xenon, which is a gas; if you’re going to get so outraged you’d think you could at least spell the artists’ nammes correctly); I was very clear that Antonio’s first two records were very good records. But they did not represent his compositions skills the way this new one does. They were more blowing albums, and not just in my assessment, but in his as well. he was honing his compositional chops, to be sure (which i say); here, in my opinion, he’s really arrived as a writer. While nothing like PMG, Antonio’s new record is closer aesthetically in that there is some very deep writing here as well as some serious playing from everyone involved - like PMG, some very accessible sounding music that’s a lot deeper and more complex under the hood. I happen to love Dave Binney’s playing on this album, but in no way does that belittle Miguel (whose music I happen to love). So, perhaps you should get your shit together before you come out with both guns blazing. At the very least, check out the record...and, oh yeah, spell the artist names correctly, since you’re so annoyed at critics disrespecting them. At least we know how to spell their names, which is also a pretty significant sign of respect. And as for Antonio bringing something different and raising the game with PMG? I think he’s certainly afforded Metheny some freedom that he didn’t have before, and that’s no disrespect to Paul...if you look at each of the three PMG drummers, they’ve been very different and suited the music of the time...though, truthfully, Paul never really got the chance to show his full breadth with PMG; for that, you need to check out some of his own post- PMG records. Anyway, I think I’m done trying to talk reasonably with you. You’ve decided all critics are shite, when, based on what you’ve written, you’ve trouble stringing words together in a meaningful fashion. So before you start making generalizations about any group of people, maybe you should learn how to spell the names of the musicians you cite, and put forward your arguments in clear, meaningful ways. Oh yeah, and actually hear the music before you disagree with the writer’s assessment. Sheesh.....
yossarian Mar 15 2013 at 7:20 PM	I haven’t heard any of Antonio’s stuff - will do so now, thanks for the youtube clip. The drum chair in PMG is a hard one to fill - you got to have great power and rock out at times but play with superhuman subtlety and cymbal fluidity the rest of the time. Wertico and Sanchez are both amazing to achive that. I doubt there are that many who could do it. I often wonder with Antonio, who is truly one of the greats, how much he had to add to his ’thing’ back in 2002 when he joined PMG. Think he was playing in Avishai Cohen’s band back then - a great band but still a huge leap to PMG.
Chris Digger Mar 15 2013 at 6:56 PM	The Jazz Police is always and everywhere - so do not cross police line ;-)
thehague Mar 15 2013 at 5:39 PM	It takes all kinds here these days, doesn’t it?
jnyutah Mar 14 2013 at 6:55 PM	to fred simon creativity was identifiable through its immunity to idomatic definitions today is the imaginary day
jnyutah Mar 14 2013 at 6:54 PM	i remember years ago some critic on this site was talking about pat martini, and some offhanded comments about his playing and i used to listen to this album joyous lake in fact this tune, and he redid it on a new album and i couldn’t believe what i read because basically the guy was full of shit literally, and as far as the new album from mr sanchez i haven’t heard it but no one ever talks about how literally everything changed when pat brought him in to the pmg now compare him to paul wertico antonio is a new voice and a very contemporary one, and i don’t like critcs who can’t see the deep level david sanchez and the other sara phone i think it was miguel xenon on that live at jazz standard that belittles them i don’t have a beef with anyone i have the right to say what i think just as the krickets do.
hman01 Mar 14 2013 at 6:45 PM	jnyutah-you need to get a new life
franksexton Mar 14 2013 at 6:25 PM	jnyutah, you are a troll "and that’s all I’m going to say about that", done.
fredsimon Mar 14 2013 at 5:23 PM	jnyutah wrote: "no one commented on the quote from pat about zero tolerance for silence? now did they?" ----- What quote? Where is it? Not in this thread. Instead of raising a red herring, why not actually respond to some of the issues addressed to you here? Again, I’d really like to know: in coherent, specific terms, what exactly is your complaint with Kelman’s review of Antonio’s new album?
jnyutah Mar 14 2013 at 12:37 PM	no one commented on the quote from pat about zero tolerance for silence? now did they?
franksexton Mar 14 2013 at 8:33 AM	jnyutah, I might add that Fred Simon is a musician also and a very good one who has played with Steve Rodby (Pat’s long time bass play in the PMG). I am not a musician myself but I agrre with what Fred is saying. I find that John’s reviews help me to better undestand and enjoy the music I listen to.
djbinder Mar 14 2013 at 7:34 AM	Thanks Fred. One last comment to jnyutah: critics need not be musicians, but it just so happens I AM one, have spent years playing gigs at home and on the road, and spent ten years (back when this actually happened) as the house guitarist for a local studio. Not that I would ever place myself at the level of folks I write about (and that includfes Fred), but I do have more than a passing acquaintance with theory, with being in a studio, with working with good (and bad) producers) and how to assess music, at least to a certain degree. But that really is neither here nor there. I’d ask you this (since both Metheny, in his writing adn Antonio, in email to me, both seem to agree that he’s taken a big leap forward compositionally. So if you don’t hear it, my friend, I’d toss the question back at you: if you’ve heard this record and don’t think it represents a major step forward for Antonio, then perhaps you need to listen to it again. I was very clear about liking his first two records, but if an artist cannot, on occasion, demonstrate significant steps forward in his/her music, then I’m not exactly sure what planet you’re on. Most arists aspire to personal growth as musicians, and sometimes as bandleadrs and writers, and if a critic (I actualy hate that term, to be honest) can’t reflect that in a review, well then, what exactly should he reflect? You don’t go into deep technical detail if you are writing for a generalist site like All About Jazz, but the truth is, I don’t have to explain myself to you. It was a glowing review that recognized the value of his past records but indicated there’s some serious forward motion here. Not sure how, unless you dislike the record and therefore disagree with that assessment, why you’d have any problem with such a review. Neither Antonio nor any of the other band members I’ve heard from seem to disagree,.....
Chris Digger Mar 14 2013 at 6:51 AM	MAKE PEACE!!!
fredsimon Mar 13 2013 at 11:30 PM	jnyutah, again, I’m flummoxed as to just exactly what your beef with John Kelman is? Your generic dismissal of critics is misplaced when it comes to Kelman, who is one of the most astute, musically knowledgeable, and fair-minded writers working today. Are there critics out there who have no idea what the hell they’re talking about? Sure, but Kelman is absolutely not one of them ... if you think he is, then you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. And what does his having written (or not written) musical compositions got to do with it? Where are your compositions? Were they treated unkindly by some critic, and therefore all critics suck? What exactly is your message?
jnyutah Mar 13 2013 at 2:06 PM	so how many compositions have you wrote except for a critique? so now we have a new revelation you know how one takes a quantum leap musically? where are they playing next? the restaurant at the end of the universe?
djbinder Mar 13 2013 at 6:16 AM	One more comment: of course any recording is a document of where the artist is at that particular time. But where Sanchez was, at the time of Jazz Standard, was a playing bandleader still honing his compositional chops. If you can’t hear the leap forward in his writing this time around - deeper, more layered writing that sounds easy on the surface but is far from so under the covers - well, I’m not sure what else to say. Also, the review doesn’t dis either record, but it simply says that the compositional strength of New Life is something for which neither of Sanchez’s previous records would prepare, and I stick by that. If a review cannot articulate how an artist has changed - and, in some cases, grown - then Im not sure what you think it should be for. But, again, some concrete examples rather than generalities would be nice.
djbinder Mar 13 2013 at 6:12 AM	jnyutah, to say that i’s not about the music for critics is unfairly (and unjustifiably) generalist. Speaking for myself, it’s all about the music. You may not agree with my assessment, and that’s fine - that;’s why we have these boards - butif yo’re so concerned with talking about the music, then why not do just that. My review of New Life does, in fact, not only contextualize it with Sanchez’s previous two recordings, it also includes hotlinks to those reviews (but if you didn’t see them, here’s the review of Migration: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/artic le.php?id=26717 and Live at Jazz Standard: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/artic le.php?id=37288). The point being, and frankly this is something that both Metheny and Sanchez feel, is that as fine as those two recordings were, with New Life Sanchez has made a huge leap forward compositionally, so not exactly sure what your beef is. I am not sure how much clearer a sentence like this could be: "Neither of those recordings —good as they are—are suitable preparation for New Life, where Sanchez takes a quantum leap forward as his compositional, conceptual and bandleading skills catch up with his playing. " If you disagree, how about some concrete comments rather than some whitewashing hatred of critics? Also, as a writer you need to balance a line: reviews are not just meant for musicians, they’re meant for listeners, not all of whom have a musical background, so the objective is to contextualize the music in terms to which anyone (or, at least, most anyone) can relate. Cheers! DJ
blisterfree Mar 11 2013 at 10:32 PM	A good critic interprets the music in relative terms and, yes, passes a value judgment on it. As DJ has done. Not because we necessarily need that, but because some of us may want it. We may or may not agree with the interpretation or the value judgment, of course, and therein lies the push-pull of the human urge to critique. Because no critique would incite any emotion in us unless we, ourselves, hadn’t the need to do the exact same thing.
jnyutah Mar 11 2013 at 4:14 PM	my beef with critics is that it has nothing to do with the music! if he can give me musical examples of say the live 2cd set and compare it to the new cd or the first one tell me explicitly whats going on in the music in realtime I’m sure u haven’t really heard the live on at jazz standard to appreciate it, one is not better or worse, it is a document of what they were doing at that time, not what you prefer.
djbinder Mar 11 2013 at 8:22 AM	akakak: John Escreet is originally from the UK but has been living in the US for the past several years; he has four albums of his own as a leader (two on Binney’s Mythology label) and are also highly recommended. Cheers! Dave
djbinder Mar 11 2013 at 7:08 AM	My review of drummer Antonio Sanchez’s New Life, today at All About Jazz. Some people come out of the gate charging; others take a little time to make that record, the one where everything aligns to assert them as not just great players, but great writers and bandleaders as well. After two fine albums for Cam Jazz, Sanchez’s New Life is that album. With an incendiary group - Dave Binney: alto saxophone; Donny McCaslin: tenor saxophone; John Escreet: piano, Fender Rhodes; Matt Brewer: acoustic and electric bass; Thana Alexa: voice - he’s got a group ready for anything, and across his eight originals, that’s exactly what he gets. Sanchez’s skill as a drummer has been clear since he first emerged with Pat Metheny Group in 2002 with Speaking of Now; but with New Life his compositional skill has take a major step forward, both in reach and multilayered depth. One of the year’s best, despite it only being March. Review here: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=44081
naut Mar 08 2013 at 6:02 PM	Terrific album, in all ways. The title track is really something. I’ve only heard it a few times, and it gets better each listen. I’m sort of typeless; I can’t praise this record enough. Love it.
Tom Rudd Feb 25 2013 at 5:44 AM	My mistake s’ for some reason i thought Chris was the only sax player on that Cd.
akakak Feb 23 2013 at 7:34 AM	Just saw Antonio last night at Scullers Jazz Club in Boston. Amazing show with David Binney on Sax and a great piano player from England. Antonio’s drumming was off the charts great. I was about 6 feet from is left side slightly toward the rear and had an excellent view of him on the drums. I got the new CD from him last night and will listen today!
s in Boston Feb 22 2013 at 11:32 AM	Tom, what makes you say Potter was overdubbed? There were two tenor players on the date, David Sanchez being the other one.
Tom Rudd Feb 21 2013 at 12:10 PM	Nod and a wink Fred.
Tom Rudd Feb 21 2013 at 5:40 AM	Can’t wait to hear this new release by Antonio. The only thing I did not like about "Migration" was Chris Potters over dubed Saxophone. Not to take away from Chris’s brilliance,that just seemed out of place to me.
fredsimon Feb 21 2013 at 1:29 AM	Whoa there, jnyutah, djbinder is neither "dense" nor "dumb" ... why the personal invective? He didn’t say the earlier albums were "just" blowing sessions, he said that they were "more" blowing sessions ... big difference: the former is dismissive, the latter descriptive. And he said that he has no problem with chordless ensembles in general but that the addition of chording instruments in an expanded ensemble gives the new album more compositional depth and he prefers that. What’s the problem?
jnyutah Feb 20 2013 at 5:52 PM	i dont agree that those earlier works were just blowing sessions, if his latest work was without chordal instrument, which is really stupid on your part because if thats a criteria on how you judge someones music you are very dense or dumb in my opinion
djbinder Feb 16 2013 at 10:49 PM	It’s a landmark for ANtonio. Certainly the best of his three releases as a leader by a longshot, because it’s a stronger indication of his compositional skills, whereas the first two were more blowing sessions. I also like the fact that there’s a larger ensemble with a chordal instrument. Barring the guest spots by Corea and Metheny on his first, the other two are largely chordless, and for some reason (as I’ve normally no problem with that) i kinda always hoped to hear Antonio’s writing in the context of a band with one or more chordal instruments. Now I’ve got it and man, am I happy about it!
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aloc
Mar 20 2013
at 2:58 AM

Thana Alexa has a nice voice indeed. From what I’ve understood, she’s been collecting money thru donations to produce her debut, which would feature Antonio aswell. As to the whole Unity thing: well, there are other great "new" singers whom, in addition of possessing a great voice, also play a vast arsenal of instruments...

akakak
Mar 19 2013
at 8:28 PM

What a wonderful singer on Antonio’s new album. Than Alexa - Amazing vocals on new life. I was thinking, how amazing it could be if she was added to the unity band!

bluepno
Mar 19 2013
at 5:25 PM

I am impressed...full circle and no one invoked Godwin’s Law...although 68 posts is reaching the limit...now back to Antonio’s album...

djbinder
Mar 19 2013
at 2:42 PM

See there, jnyutah? On that we absolutely agree! :)

jnyutah
Mar 19 2013
at 1:04 PM

i would say uprising and evolutions is an homage to coltrane and his message moving it forward to now listen to day trip where on some tunes antonio is channeling some serious elvin jones

METHenyaddicted
Mar 19 2013
at 12:00 PM

David Binney is so awesomely cute - if I knew that I would have listened to ’Graylen’ sooner. Oh yeah, the new cd. I ordered based on the comments but it’s taking a long while to get here. Meanwhile here is a track I found from the cd - I think it’s no. 3 on the playlist performed at a jazz club. Excellent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUC98v_r-yc&list=UUyKaaVFqQEqdEu0OheOUwJA.

harn
Mar 19 2013
at 8:22 AM

Just to go off at a tangent here; Antonio Sanchez has a new album out, any thoughts?......

Tom Rudd
Mar 19 2013
at 7:35 AM

jnyutah, implying that dj or anyone else here in the Garage is "very dense or dumb", is a personal attack. It may be your opinion, if so keep it to yourself. There is a reason why you have gotten very few posts on your ZTFS thread, No one here want to have a dialogue with you. Until you develop some sort of internet social skills, take it somewhere else.

djbinder
Mar 19 2013
at 7:05 AM

OK, back to the music - folks who posted that are absolutely correct (though I appreciate the ongoing support, folks, truly). Dave Binney tells me they’ve been touring South America and it’s been going absolutely fabulously. So let’s start with a question, for those who’ve heard this record and Antonio’s previous two: do you also feel that he’s made a serious leap forward as a writer? Acknowledging he’s always had great groups on his records, it just seems to me that this is quite a step forward in his writiing ) (something Metheny also acknowledges in his liners, so JNYUTAH, if you disagree with me, perhaps you’ll agree with Pat?). So, folks. How do you feel about the writing? Someone posted, way back, that the first track, being very Post- Coltrane, put them off at first. FVor me, quite the opposite , as it simply presented a different side to Antonio....something that continues throughout the record, as I think the writing here is also more eclectic and diverse than anything that’s come before. Thoughts?

carlosportocarrero
Mar 19 2013
at 5:45 AM

Depressing...

Antoñete
Mar 19 2013
at 4:49 AM

jnyutah, for what I’ve read, I think that you are un poco gilipollas, bastante tontoloscojones y te veo cierto retraso mental y una considerable dificultad de comprensión, but that’s not being unkind, it’s just an opinion.

blisterfree
Mar 19 2013
at 2:43 AM

An unwitting troll, or one in self-denial, or one who plays bait and switch, is still a troll. The only solution is to stop feeding him. Otherwise the troll wins and everyone else loses. After 57 replies, it’s time to cut our losses, eh?

fredsimon
Mar 19 2013
at 12:51 AM

When you call someone "dumb" "dense" or "stupid" you are being unkind. And this childish stonewalling isn’t fooling anyone here, except perhaps yourself.

jnyutah
Mar 18 2013
at 8:18 PM

its not unkind behavior, how can giving my opinion be unkind? you must be delusional, by all means cross the street,

fredsimon
Mar 18 2013
at 5:19 PM

jynutah, I’m gonna try again to help you understand what the problem is here ... of course you’re entitled to your opinions about musical issues -- everyone here has repeatedly said that -- but you’re not entitled to rewrite reality. When you try to do so by saying "they ostracize those who don’t agree with their opinions" you are just plain incorrect ... no one here is ostracizing you for your musical opinions, it’s for your aggressively unkind behavior. And when called out on it, blustering and stonewalling does not help. Take your own advice: you seriously need to take a look at yourself. Frankly, I’m usually more than happy to discuss esoteric musical issues; it’s part of what I do as a teacher. But your behavior is so off-putting it makes me want to cross to the other side of the street instead.

thehague
Mar 18 2013
at 5:05 PM

C’mon guys, it’s been enough. Let the music speak. That’s always the truth.

Antoñete
Mar 18 2013
at 5:02 PM

You guy seriously need to take a look at yourself

carlosportocarrero
Mar 18 2013
at 4:53 PM

It’s a shame that what started as a constructive post about Antonio’s great album turned out this way. The actual posts about the album and the music were very few compared to all the bickering. Talks volumes about human nature...

jnyutah
Mar 18 2013
at 3:53 PM

and i’ll quote bob dylan from all along the watch tower "so let us not talk falsely now the hour is getting late"

jnyutah
Mar 18 2013
at 8:54 AM

theres nothing to apologize for, you guys seriously need to take a look at yourselves

harn
Mar 18 2013
at 8:24 AM

Just skimmed through all these posts, it’s given me a really good laugh during my lunch break! I have yet to find out anything about the album in question though so I’ll be checking out djbinder’s review later on as they are always incisive, informative and well written. The whole thing has reminded me of a saying that a friend of mine used to use regularly; never argue with an idiot as they will only drag you down to their level and then beat you on experience!

djbinder
Mar 18 2013
at 5:06 AM

I’ve no issue with you taking issue, jnyutah, it’s HOW you do it, as Fred says, I’ve not called you dumb, idiot or any of the other things you’ve called me. As for moment by moment analysis of TWU and Elling, it’s pretty hard for me to do from an airport lounge. But again, most music fans don’t want that kind of analysis....perhaps if I wrote for guitar player, say; but at All About Jazz, most readers are not musicians so are looking for explanations of the music in terms they can understand, you don’t like it, or you don’t agree, no problem. But treat me with some respect, respect that most people deserve, and apologize for not disagreeing with me, but doing so in a rude and offensive fashion, and I suspect you and I may have lots to talk about...even if we disagree. That is not the issue; treating people with respect is. I am sorry you are schizophrenic, but perhaps you should not post when go you are either off your meds or not feeling well. That does not give you carte Blanche to treat people badly. Sorry, but I have a family member who is seriously bipolar, and they would never hide behind their illness when it comes to bad behavior...they would apologize for it. Because I do have someone in the family with a mood affective disorder, you do have my sympathies, but bad behavior simply is bad behavior and if you go off the rails, then at least an apology for that would, as Fred says, go a long way. But i do feel for ya, it’s a tough, tough illness and the treatment is sometimes worse than the illness.

jnyutah
Mar 17 2013
at 9:08 PM

plus if you post your reviews and plug them, i have every right to call it as i interpret it, so much for all inclusiveness you can disregard me all you want it does not matter remember there was a time when everyone thought the world was flat go ahead and berate me for speaking freely so much for jazz

jnyutah
Mar 17 2013
at 8:59 PM

with all due respect mr simon, i can use those words if you don’t agree then go ahead and jump on the bandwagon, I’ve posted as i said before actual fax based things in regards to mr binder and all to no avail, let me see adults start wars, they fleece the poor, they kick a man when hes down, the ostracize those who don’t agree with their opinions, it doesn’t matter if I’m taken seriously because i know where I’m coming from and believe me I’ve posted some stuff after careful listening and not taken seriously, plus i am a diagnosed schizophrenic i filter things differently please stop trying to evade the truth.

fredsimon
Mar 17 2013
at 8:04 PM

jnyutah wrote: "[djbinder has] less tact than me" ----- Really?! When did he ever call you "dumb" "dense" or "stupid," as you have called him? You behaved poorly, and then when people call you on the behavior you don’t even own up to it, much less apologize. C’mon, be a mensch and do the right thing, especially if you want your musical opinions taken seriously.

hman01
Mar 17 2013
at 1:11 PM

Ask James Bond how he liked his "martini".

jnyutah
Mar 17 2013
at 11:42 AM

and for the harmonic similarities its somewhere in the way up not at the tempo changes i was talking about

jnyutah
Mar 17 2013
at 11:33 AM

they used his voice leading books as a reference when they were writing the way up, what do you think about the tempo change in the way up from the start bar 1 quarter note 162 bpm to 122 bar 177? check out the tune timeline and kurt ellings the beauty of all things, hear any harmonic similarities? and what do you think of section K1 bar 406 to 425 where its rubato? tell me whats your take on part two at wich is at 141 bpm from a previous 172 bpm preceding that , then listen to part 3 at around 12 minutes in listen for maybe 30 seconds tell whats happening there please, its pretty real not an adjective, and you have less tact than me, im happy that you have a public outlet aaj to write what you think about music and also a forum where what u promote is untouchable thats great, i don’t have that I’m not asking for that, maybe if you really look at how your reacting. I’m pretty sure it was you about martini cause they got real defensive like you did, any way keep on writing and check out that stuff i will surely check out newlife and give you a scathing review cheers

djbinder
Mar 17 2013
at 7:43 AM

And I assure you it was not me re: Martino (not Martini!). I love him to death, and was thrilled with the Joyous Lake reunion. Not sure what your bug is on that front, but you are simply incorrect, as I was not writing about jazz at the time of that release. I only began writing and getting published in 2003, started at All About Jazz in 2004. So you are ascribing things to me that are simply not mine. What do you want to talk about? That Mick Goodrick’s approach was hugely influential on Pat’s early days and so, while his own voice clearly emerged, it’s still part of his DNA? What do you want to discuss about metric and tempo shifts in TWU? What specifically? Why? That’s an unusual question, but such things are usually done for reasons that have to do with compositional development (especially in longform pieces), harmonic tension and release (a big part of TWU’s overall MO I think)...what exactly is the question beyond why? What are your thoughts. Let’s start there.

djbinder
Mar 17 2013
at 7:38 AM

Never said you were dumb. But if you’ve yet to actually discuss MY review with any intelligence...largely because you cannot if you’ve not heard it? How can you argue my assessments if you’ve not heard the musci which is being assessed? I make no complaints against Antonio’s early recordings (I say they’re good records), but that he’s grown on this one. If my explanations (not defensive, but trying to address your attacks with reasoned arguments) don’t make sense, then discuss them. And yes, I’’m quite familiar with the music you mention, but again, in a generalist jazz site like All About Jazz you tend to avoid getting into technical matters too much, as the purpose is the expose the music to a broader audience, not just musicians. If none of this makes sense, and if you still just hate critics on a knee jerk - if you don’t feel the need to read us, then fine, i’ve no issue. I also have no issue discussing things like adults. What I’ve no time for is blanket generalizations and personal attacks that, in at least one case (Martino) are absolutely untrue. Get your facts straight, discuss and disagree with respect and like an adult, and we can have plenty to talk about but your offensive "do you know this? Do you know thast" approach is not conducive to real discussion and debate. I could do the same to you, but where would we be? I agree with you 100percent that if we all loved the same thing and didn;t disagree, music wouldn’t be what it is. But that doesn’t mean that being disrespectful and aggressive is proper. You can debate - even heatedly - without making it personal, as you did from your very first post. If you’d be prepared to back off from that stance and just **discuss** the music, I’d be all ears...and would have no problem with you disagreeing with my assessments. That’s never an issue; it’s all about approach. Didn;t your mother tell you "you catch more flies with honey"?

mountain
Mar 17 2013
at 7:34 AM

The upside on the troll posts is that it has engaged some folks to provide some interesting insights to how thy evaluate music and has created some passionate postings to the AG that has been somewhat flat of recent. Looking at the glass half full of course.

thehague
Mar 17 2013
at 3:14 AM

Aha, now it’s clear: mr jezusnyutah wants to be a critic himself, but isn’t doing quite as good as real critics.

jnyutah
Mar 16 2013
at 9:28 PM

ok for example lets talk about the way up why do the have metric modulations in different sections and why did they choose those different tempos? why did they use mick good ricks voice leading books as a reference? have you listened to kurt ellingtons the beauty of all things and then listened to the way up? have you heard whats going on in the end segment? tell me I’m dumb and a troll

jnyutah
Mar 16 2013
at 9:13 PM

I’ve discussed previous critiques before on a factual basis and an understanding of the music presented, all to no avail, im pretty sure it was djbinder about martini i remember that disticinctly because i studied the music.

djbinder
Mar 16 2013
at 7:00 PM

Jnyutah, I’d be happy to engage with you on points. Point one, I wasn’t the critic about Martino because I wasn’t a critic at that time. Second, you can say what you will but it has to be actual arguable points not ’I don’t agree with you, even though I’ve not heard the album because I hate critics.’ Listen to the record, then read what I’ve said, you disagree? I’ll be happy to. Ave an adult, civil discussion with you. Problem is, it doesn’t appear that you are any more capable of that than you are getting names spelled correctly, I’m done with you, unless you want to really discuss and not just come out with an attack that’s based on no facts, no reality, just your supposition.

fredsimon
Mar 16 2013
at 6:14 PM

jnyutah, no one has a problem with your differing opinions on the relative merits of the music. As I first wrote, I do have a problem with you calling someone "stupid" "dense" and "dumb" just because you don’t agree with them. Hopefully you can discern the distiction.

blisterfree
Mar 16 2013
at 2:39 PM

The Kenny G of forum trolls roams among us. All blowhard, no ideas. Look at me.

jnyutah
Mar 16 2013
at 10:41 AM

im pretty sure it was you, anyway i don’t need someone to convince me one way or another about an albums merits or not, if your a critic in a public forum then expect to be criticized about your critiques youve been way to defensive about what u have written and it has nothing to do with the music because it would still be there, and im not a troll just because i don’t say what you would prefer or agree with your critique its crazy how u automatically go haywire if someone doesn’t like what you wrote, good music wouldn’t be around if we were all pleasant to each other.

Chris Digger
Mar 16 2013
at 7:07 AM

To yossarian: maybe Vinnie Colaiuta could drum the PMG-style.

djbinder
Mar 15 2013
at 8:03 PM

On more thing: yes, you’ve the right to say anything you damn well please, but if you talk trash, you can also be sure that others have the right to call you out on it..and ask you to support your arguments, not just make blanket generalizations because some critic dissed a record you liked 15 years ago.

djbinder
Mar 15 2013
at 8:00 PM

Wow, jnyutah. First, I don’t know what critic you’re talking about re Pat Martino (not Martini, just btw), but it sure wasn’t me - I happn to be a huge fan of Joyous Lake as well as Stone Blue, where he reunited most of the original group and delivered a kick-ass set. More to the point, I am absolutely gobsmacked to learn that you’ve come railing out against critics in general and me in particular when you’ve not even heard the album! Maybe if you did, you might actually agree with me, but either way, you’d at least have some ammunition for a debate. You question my assessments without hearing the album to know if they make sense or not? Sounds to me like whoever said you were a troll is spot on. I did not belittle Miguel Zenón (not Xenon, which is a gas; if you’re going to get so outraged you’d think you could at least spell the artists’ nammes correctly); I was very clear that Antonio’s first two records were very good records. But they did not represent his compositions skills the way this new one does. They were more blowing albums, and not just in my assessment, but in his as well. he was honing his compositional chops, to be sure (which i say); here, in my opinion, he’s really arrived as a writer. While nothing like PMG, Antonio’s new record is closer aesthetically in that there is some very deep writing here as well as some serious playing from everyone involved - like PMG, some very accessible sounding music that’s a lot deeper and more complex under the hood. I happen to love Dave Binney’s playing on this album, but in no way does that belittle Miguel (whose music I happen to love). So, perhaps you should get your shit together before you come out with both guns blazing. At the very least, check out the record...and, oh yeah, spell the artist names correctly, since you’re so annoyed at critics disrespecting them. At least we know how to spell their names, which is also a pretty significant sign of respect. And as for Antonio bringing something different and raising the game with PMG? I think he’s certainly afforded Metheny some freedom that he didn’t have before, and that’s no disrespect to Paul...if you look at each of the three PMG drummers, they’ve been very different and suited the music of the time...though, truthfully, Paul never really got the chance to show his full breadth with PMG; for that, you need to check out some of his own post- PMG records. Anyway, I think I’m done trying to talk reasonably with you. You’ve decided all critics are shite, when, based on what you’ve written, you’ve trouble stringing words together in a meaningful fashion. So before you start making generalizations about any group of people, maybe you should learn how to spell the names of the musicians you cite, and put forward your arguments in clear, meaningful ways. Oh yeah, and actually hear the music before you disagree with the writer’s assessment. Sheesh.....

yossarian
Mar 15 2013
at 7:20 PM

I haven’t heard any of Antonio’s stuff - will do so now, thanks for the youtube clip. The drum chair in PMG is a hard one to fill - you got to have great power and rock out at times but play with superhuman subtlety and cymbal fluidity the rest of the time. Wertico and Sanchez are both amazing to achive that. I doubt there are that many who could do it. I often wonder with Antonio, who is truly one of the greats, how much he had to add to his ’thing’ back in 2002 when he joined PMG. Think he was playing in Avishai Cohen’s band back then - a great band but still a huge leap to PMG.

Chris Digger
Mar 15 2013
at 6:56 PM

The Jazz Police is always and everywhere - so do not cross police line ;-)

thehague
Mar 15 2013
at 5:39 PM

It takes all kinds here these days, doesn’t it?

jnyutah
Mar 14 2013
at 6:55 PM

to fred simon creativity was identifiable through its immunity to idomatic definitions today is the imaginary day

jnyutah
Mar 14 2013
at 6:54 PM

i remember years ago some critic on this site was talking about pat martini, and some offhanded comments about his playing and i used to listen to this album joyous lake in fact this tune, and he redid it on a new album and i couldn’t believe what i read because basically the guy was full of shit literally, and as far as the new album from mr sanchez i haven’t heard it but no one ever talks about how literally everything changed when pat brought him in to the pmg now compare him to paul wertico antonio is a new voice and a very contemporary one, and i don’t like critcs who can’t see the deep level david sanchez and the other sara phone i think it was miguel xenon on that live at jazz standard that belittles them i don’t have a beef with anyone i have the right to say what i think just as the krickets do.

hman01
Mar 14 2013
at 6:45 PM

jnyutah-you need to get a new life

franksexton
Mar 14 2013
at 6:25 PM

jnyutah, you are a troll "and that’s all I’m going to say about that", done.

fredsimon
Mar 14 2013
at 5:23 PM

jnyutah wrote: "no one commented on the quote from pat about zero tolerance for silence? now did they?" ----- What quote? Where is it? Not in this thread. Instead of raising a red herring, why not actually respond to some of the issues addressed to you here? Again, I’d really like to know: in coherent, specific terms, what exactly is your complaint with Kelman’s review of Antonio’s new album?

jnyutah
Mar 14 2013
at 12:37 PM

no one commented on the quote from pat about zero tolerance for silence? now did they?

franksexton
Mar 14 2013
at 8:33 AM

jnyutah, I might add that Fred Simon is a musician also and a very good one who has played with Steve Rodby (Pat’s long time bass play in the PMG). I am not a musician myself but I agrre with what Fred is saying. I find that John’s reviews help me to better undestand and enjoy the music I listen to.

djbinder
Mar 14 2013
at 7:34 AM

Thanks Fred. One last comment to jnyutah: critics need not be musicians, but it just so happens I AM one, have spent years playing gigs at home and on the road, and spent ten years (back when this actually happened) as the house guitarist for a local studio. Not that I would ever place myself at the level of folks I write about (and that includfes Fred), but I do have more than a passing acquaintance with theory, with being in a studio, with working with good (and bad) producers) and how to assess music, at least to a certain degree. But that really is neither here nor there. I’d ask you this (since both Metheny, in his writing adn Antonio, in email to me, both seem to agree that he’s taken a big leap forward compositionally. So if you don’t hear it, my friend, I’d toss the question back at you: if you’ve heard this record and don’t think it represents a major step forward for Antonio, then perhaps you need to listen to it again. I was very clear about liking his first two records, but if an artist cannot, on occasion, demonstrate significant steps forward in his/her music, then I’m not exactly sure what planet you’re on. Most arists aspire to personal growth as musicians, and sometimes as bandleadrs and writers, and if a critic (I actualy hate that term, to be honest) can’t reflect that in a review, well then, what exactly should he reflect? You don’t go into deep technical detail if you are writing for a generalist site like All About Jazz, but the truth is, I don’t have to explain myself to you. It was a glowing review that recognized the value of his past records but indicated there’s some serious forward motion here. Not sure how, unless you dislike the record and therefore disagree with that assessment, why you’d have any problem with such a review. Neither Antonio nor any of the other band members I’ve heard from seem to disagree,.....

Chris Digger
Mar 14 2013
at 6:51 AM

MAKE PEACE!!!

fredsimon
Mar 13 2013
at 11:30 PM

jnyutah, again, I’m flummoxed as to just exactly what your beef with John Kelman is? Your generic dismissal of critics is misplaced when it comes to Kelman, who is one of the most astute, musically knowledgeable, and fair-minded writers working today. Are there critics out there who have no idea what the hell they’re talking about? Sure, but Kelman is absolutely not one of them ... if you think he is, then you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. And what does his having written (or not written) musical compositions got to do with it? Where are your compositions? Were they treated unkindly by some critic, and therefore all critics suck? What exactly is your message?

jnyutah
Mar 13 2013
at 2:06 PM

so how many compositions have you wrote except for a critique? so now we have a new revelation you know how one takes a quantum leap musically? where are they playing next? the restaurant at the end of the universe?

djbinder
Mar 13 2013
at 6:16 AM

One more comment: of course any recording is a document of where the artist is at that particular time. But where Sanchez was, at the time of Jazz Standard, was a playing bandleader still honing his compositional chops. If you can’t hear the leap forward in his writing this time around - deeper, more layered writing that sounds easy on the surface but is far from so under the covers - well, I’m not sure what else to say. Also, the review doesn’t dis either record, but it simply says that the compositional strength of New Life is something for which neither of Sanchez’s previous records would prepare, and I stick by that. If a review cannot articulate how an artist has changed - and, in some cases, grown - then Im not sure what you think it should be for. But, again, some concrete examples rather than generalities would be nice.

djbinder
Mar 13 2013
at 6:12 AM

jnyutah, to say that i’s not about the music for critics is unfairly (and unjustifiably) generalist. Speaking for myself, it’s all about the music. You may not agree with my assessment, and that’s fine - that;’s why we have these boards - butif yo’re so concerned with talking about the music, then why not do just that. My review of New Life does, in fact, not only contextualize it with Sanchez’s previous two recordings, it also includes hotlinks to those reviews (but if you didn’t see them, here’s the review of Migration: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/artic le.php?id=26717 and Live at Jazz Standard: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/artic le.php?id=37288). The point being, and frankly this is something that both Metheny and Sanchez feel, is that as fine as those two recordings were, with New Life Sanchez has made a huge leap forward compositionally, so not exactly sure what your beef is. I am not sure how much clearer a sentence like this could be: "Neither of those recordings —good as they are—are suitable preparation for New Life, where Sanchez takes a quantum leap forward as his compositional, conceptual and bandleading skills catch up with his playing. " If you disagree, how about some concrete comments rather than some whitewashing hatred of critics? Also, as a writer you need to balance a line: reviews are not just meant for musicians, they’re meant for listeners, not all of whom have a musical background, so the objective is to contextualize the music in terms to which anyone (or, at least, most anyone) can relate. Cheers! DJ

blisterfree
Mar 11 2013
at 10:32 PM

A good critic interprets the music in relative terms and, yes, passes a value judgment on it. As DJ has done. Not because we necessarily need that, but because some of us may want it. We may or may not agree with the interpretation or the value judgment, of course, and therein lies the push-pull of the human urge to critique. Because no critique would incite any emotion in us unless we, ourselves, hadn’t the need to do the exact same thing.

jnyutah
Mar 11 2013
at 4:14 PM

my beef with critics is that it has nothing to do with the music! if he can give me musical examples of say the live 2cd set and compare it to the new cd or the first one tell me explicitly whats going on in the music in realtime I’m sure u haven’t really heard the live on at jazz standard to appreciate it, one is not better or worse, it is a document of what they were doing at that time, not what you prefer.

djbinder
Mar 11 2013
at 8:22 AM

akakak: John Escreet is originally from the UK but has been living in the US for the past several years; he has four albums of his own as a leader (two on Binney’s Mythology label) and are also highly recommended. Cheers! Dave

djbinder
Mar 11 2013
at 7:08 AM

My review of drummer Antonio Sanchez’s New Life, today at All About Jazz. Some people come out of the gate charging; others take a little time to make that record, the one where everything aligns to assert them as not just great players, but great writers and bandleaders as well. After two fine albums for Cam Jazz, Sanchez’s New Life is that album. With an incendiary group - Dave Binney: alto saxophone; Donny McCaslin: tenor saxophone; John Escreet: piano, Fender Rhodes; Matt Brewer: acoustic and electric bass; Thana Alexa: voice - he’s got a group ready for anything, and across his eight originals, that’s exactly what he gets. Sanchez’s skill as a drummer has been clear since he first emerged with Pat Metheny Group in 2002 with Speaking of Now; but with New Life his compositional skill has take a major step forward, both in reach and multilayered depth. One of the year’s best, despite it only being March. Review here: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=44081

naut
Mar 08 2013
at 6:02 PM

Terrific album, in all ways. The title track is really something. I’ve only heard it a few times, and it gets better each listen. I’m sort of typeless; I can’t praise this record enough. Love it.

Tom Rudd
Feb 25 2013
at 5:44 AM

My mistake s’ for some reason i thought Chris was the only sax player on that Cd.

akakak
Feb 23 2013
at 7:34 AM

Just saw Antonio last night at Scullers Jazz Club in Boston. Amazing show with David Binney on Sax and a great piano player from England. Antonio’s drumming was off the charts great. I was about 6 feet from is left side slightly toward the rear and had an excellent view of him on the drums. I got the new CD from him last night and will listen today!

s in Boston
Feb 22 2013
at 11:32 AM

Tom, what makes you say Potter was overdubbed? There were two tenor players on the date, David Sanchez being the other one.

Tom Rudd
Feb 21 2013
at 12:10 PM

Nod and a wink Fred.

Tom Rudd
Feb 21 2013
at 5:40 AM

Can’t wait to hear this new release by Antonio. The only thing I did not like about "Migration" was Chris Potters over dubed Saxophone. Not to take away from Chris’s brilliance,that just seemed out of place to me.

fredsimon
Feb 21 2013
at 1:29 AM

Whoa there, jnyutah, djbinder is neither "dense" nor "dumb" ... why the personal invective? He didn’t say the earlier albums were "just" blowing sessions, he said that they were "more" blowing sessions ... big difference: the former is dismissive, the latter descriptive. And he said that he has no problem with chordless ensembles in general but that the addition of chording instruments in an expanded ensemble gives the new album more compositional depth and he prefers that. What’s the problem?

jnyutah
Feb 20 2013
at 5:52 PM

i dont agree that those earlier works were just blowing sessions, if his latest work was without chordal instrument, which is really stupid on your part because if thats a criteria on how you judge someones music you are very dense or dumb in my opinion

djbinder
Feb 16 2013
at 10:49 PM

It’s a landmark for ANtonio. Certainly the best of his three releases as a leader by a longshot, because it’s a stronger indication of his compositional skills, whereas the first two were more blowing sessions. I also like the fact that there’s a larger ensemble with a chordal instrument. Barring the guest spots by Corea and Metheny on his first, the other two are largely chordless, and for some reason (as I’ve normally no problem with that) i kinda always hoped to hear Antonio’s writing in the context of a band with one or more chordal instruments. Now I’ve got it and man, am I happy about it!

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