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| SUBJECT: | Are musicians looking for themselves, or in the same sense, looking for God when they create? Back to Subjects |
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Ydubini Mar 02 2011 at 6:38 PM |
An argentine actor said: "Music is the anteroom of God"... I think that Music is, in most of cases, a religious experience, religious in the literal sense. «Religion» comes from latin «re-ligare», that means «to join again»; by means of religion, the divided man joins again with himself. I often think about this, and I believe it’s an interesting subject to talk. Thanks. |
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Dazedcat Mar 25 2011 at 1:54 PM |
Sure it’s flawed but it’s a great TV show lol.
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patsfan Mar 25 2011 at 11:21 AM |
Fred .... Indeed life will always be a
mystery, and the biggest flaw of
civilization is NOT embracing the
mystery and the awe of not knowing.
Science and religion both strive to
answer what we will never know .
Even the Big Bang hypothesis is
fatally flawed...
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fredsimon Mar 23 2011 at 9:40 PM |
Of course, what I meant to write was: "humans have always been very UN-comfortable with not knowing ... "
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fredsimon Mar 22 2011 at 1:15 PM |
The quote from Einstein pretty much sums it up for me ... humans have always been very comfortable with not knowing, hence codified religion. Solar eclipse? The sun god did it. Profound music? God spoke through the composer.
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foper Mar 22 2011 at 11:34 AM |
dcm... Because that’s how music affects some of us; in a spiritual way.
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jsjj21 Mar 22 2011 at 10:36 AM |
Hey -M! Doing well and thanks so much! Celebrated the first day of Spring watching it snow for a better part of the day. Hope all’s well with you too!
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bluepno Mar 21 2011 at 7:51 PM |
Richard Dawkins perhaps known to have sung backup in a pub or two...a few strains from hernia.
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dcm Mar 21 2011 at 4:35 PM |
And maybe some of us are just looking for a good song and enjoy making music. Why try to read some mytical lala statement about higher powers and enlightenment. Give me a break.
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-m Mar 21 2011 at 1:39 PM |
j21! Hope you’re doing great up in the new location amigo!
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bluepno Mar 21 2011 at 10:33 AM |
Dawkins...http://www.wimp.com/goingto/
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bluepno Mar 21 2011 at 10:29 AM |
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed. It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds: it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity. In this sense, and only this sense, I am a deeply religious man... I am satisfied with the mystery of life’s eternity and with a knowledge, a sense, of the marvelous structure of existence..." -A. Einstein, a violinist.
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Oystein Mar 21 2011 at 6:41 AM |
Looks like we`ve all been lurking in the shades for the last year, waiting for the right keyword ("religion") .....and the kindness of the moderator to allow any good debate as long as it`s music related (...and as long as we keep our cool :o))
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barley Mar 21 2011 at 3:44 AM |
J21!! What a nice surprise. Good to hear from you.
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patsfan Mar 21 2011 at 12:53 AM |
Well, not much has been
accomplished in this forum... Maybe
because none of us know who God
is .. Is that the fallacy of religion?
Or do we take on faith who God
might be? Religion, superstition, or
whatever.
On a totally different subject, would
you guys(or gals) mind stating what
percentage of people you know
appreciate good music, jazz or
whatever. My data says about 10 or
20 percent at the most...
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buckleyhere Mar 20 2011 at 3:59 PM |
"Music speaks what cannot be
expressed,
Soothes the mind and gives it rest,
Heals the heart and makes it whole,
Flows from heaven to the soul."
Music as a wholly human endeavor is
expressive of a voice beyond talking. If
it has a "meaning," you’d have to say it
was the capture of a fleeting glimpse
into the "soul." If it has a "purpose," it
might be to communicate that which
in the abstract is akin to dance, art
and architecture.
Strip away any ulterior motives
(making music in the service of
commerce, organized religion, etc.),
and you get close to the purity of
virtuosity and improvisation. Like
science, it’s a search for a truth not yet
encountered or explored...
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jsjj21 Mar 20 2011 at 8:38 AM |
Hello Barley, and everyone else. Nice to see ya! Check in occasionally to see what’s happening.
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john Mar 16 2011 at 7:29 PM |
Abject apologies Pete. I mistyped as it were - a huge oversight on my part. Your presence here enhances us and is further proof of a supernatural power at work (can I stop grovelling now Pete?). Cheers John
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HAMBONE Mar 16 2011 at 12:49 PM |
I agree too, Patsfan and dazedcat. That’s why I qualified what I said earlier in this post with "if you believe".If you don’t, that’s fine too.
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Dazedcat Mar 16 2011 at 9:13 AM |
Yes patsfan I agree, either you believe or quite frankly you don’t. Personally speaking I do but you’ll never catch me preaching. It is what it is, or isn’t.
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barley Mar 16 2011 at 3:24 AM |
Hallelujah! All we need now is ji.......
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patsfan Mar 15 2011 at 10:49 PM |
My personal observations are that
people often have ’weird’ music
tastes .... People who love corny
dysphonic ugly blues music, opera
that shreiks in Italian melodrama,
etc. People likewise have their own
’God’ which does not speak to you.
Thus I conclude God is personal and
within you .... Do not force him on
other people, or musicians......
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HAMBONE Mar 15 2011 at 10:04 PM |
Hail hail the gang’s all here!
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foper Mar 15 2011 at 7:55 PM |
john/blue... I’m back with caution. I hope my reputation hasn’t been ruined beyond forgiveness. It’s good to see the usual suspects still active and keeping the site alive.
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Pete_Vancouver Mar 15 2011 at 7:43 PM |
John , awwww man , i feel so
excluded . It must be divine
retribution for my atheistic tendencies
and reading all those books by
christopher hitchens . Oh well I shall
just go amuse myself , its what (s)He
would want .
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Dazedcat Mar 15 2011 at 6:57 PM |
It does warm the heart though doesn’t it? Happy days are here again......
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john Mar 15 2011 at 5:07 PM |
Foper, bluepro, thehague, Fred, barley, dazed, hambone, Peewee, Oystein all back together on the same webpage. I thought it would never happen again – it can only have come about by divine intervention. Cheers John
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barley Mar 13 2011 at 4:34 PM |
AMEN
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patsfan Mar 12 2011 at 11:45 PM |
God help us !!!
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harn Mar 12 2011 at 2:49 PM |
I wonder if Richard Dawkins plays a
musical instrument.
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bluepno Mar 12 2011 at 10:19 AM |
welcome back foper.
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foper Mar 12 2011 at 10:01 AM |
Barley... Not sure. Let’s see how things go here. Hague got me off to a good start :/
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foper Mar 12 2011 at 10:00 AM |
TheHague... LOL. Good to see you too.
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john Mar 12 2011 at 9:25 AM |
Hague, there is no Basement unfortunately - Barley broke it! Cheers John
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Dazedcat Mar 12 2011 at 9:03 AM |
Hi there Foper, long time no see. I guess I should have qualified my statement but I did reply to Fred it was just my humble opinion, so I qualified it that way instead. My original statement though I still stand by.
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barley Mar 12 2011 at 5:32 AM |
Well said Wendy. FOPER! How are you old buddy?
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thehague Mar 12 2011 at 3:40 AM |
Could this be placed in the Basement - along with Foper?
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Wendy Mar 11 2011 at 6:22 PM |
For those with faith, there need be no proof. Perhaps, musicians are not so much seeking God as they are being His voice.
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foper Mar 11 2011 at 6:18 PM |
I don’t want to speak for Dazed. But I get a feeling his statement was meant as: Actually music is all-the-more proof to me that God exists.
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bluepno Mar 11 2011 at 4:47 PM |
Birds direct answer when interviewed on a radio station in France on what religion he practiced...check out his quote when he met Jean Paul Sartre. The book "Bird" by Robert George Reisner has the full story.
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fredsimon Mar 11 2011 at 2:26 AM |
"I am a devout musician.” -Charlie Parker ---- Wow, I never knew he said that ... I’ve been saying that since forever! Not that I thought it was so brilliant that no one else could have possibly said it, too, but it’s nice to get a little validation from such a heavy source. Of course, I don’t really know in what sense Bird meant it, but when I say it, I mean music is my religion, and it’s got nothing to do with anything remotely connected with organized religion or god(s), but it does have a significant spiritual component, as in the collective human spirit.
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bluepno Mar 10 2011 at 9:49 PM |
So true Pete...here is one more...“A ponderous orchestral absurdity.”— Frank Zappa, on the debut of his rock symphony
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PeeWee Mar 10 2011 at 7:16 PM |
Pianist Arthur Rubenstein was once asked if he believed in God, to which he replied, "No, I believe in something much more wonderful!"
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Dazedcat Mar 10 2011 at 5:48 PM |
Dazedcat bears no responsibility or liability for anything. Cheers Barley :)
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Pete_Vancouver Mar 10 2011 at 5:10 PM |
A nice compendium of attributions
blue , but whether you assign it to
Booth or Calvin or Luther ,
apparently ’the devil has all the best
tunes’ anyway .
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barley Mar 10 2011 at 1:13 PM |
Blue gettin’ busy on the quotations there. It struck me whilst listening to "The Truth Will Always Be" that Dazedcat has the uncanny ability to get the grumpy old tortoise to poke his head out of his shell. Almost as though the tortoise trawls the threads for something with which to argue.
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bluepno Mar 10 2011 at 10:58 AM |
“God tells me how the music should sound, but you stand in the way.”— Arturo Toscanini, to a trumpet player
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bluepno Mar 10 2011 at 10:55 AM |
“Some days you get up and put the horn to your chops and it sounds pretty good and you win. Some days you try and nothing works and the horn wins. This goes on and on and then you die and the horn wins.”— Dizzy Gillespie, on playing the trumpet
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bluepno Mar 10 2011 at 10:53 AM |
“Music is, by its very nature, essentially powerless to express anything at all. Music expresses itself.”— Igor Stravinsky
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bluepno Mar 10 2011 at 9:24 AM |
"I am a devout musician.” -Charlie Parker.
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Oystein Mar 10 2011 at 3:22 AM |
I think if you look hard enough and are really motivated and pre-convinced, you can find proof of just about anything. Including the existence of a higher entity. But I don`t think that has got anything to do with music at all. The greatest composers are mainly non-religious people, that`s my impression.
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fredsimon Mar 10 2011 at 1:38 AM |
Hambone wrote: "I also believe there is a spirit in all of us that transcends religion that can inspire us to create music" -- With that I firmly agree. I just don’t understand the idea that music proves the existence of God.
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barley Mar 09 2011 at 12:41 PM |
It’s a question of belief. I believe there is life beyond the solar system, somewhere in the universe. I have absolutely no evidence of this, but I believe. Same with God.
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HAMBONE Mar 09 2011 at 11:28 AM |
Simply put, if you believe in a divine entity, or God, that created the world and mankind, then music that is created by man would be proof there is a God. I also believe there is a spirit in all of us that transcends religion that can inspire us to create music, whether you believe in a God or not. And as Steve Winwood said " spirit is something that no one destroys".
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bluepno Mar 09 2011 at 9:18 AM |
Pete Townshends’ Parvardigar... O Parvardigar is the common name of a prayer composed by Meher Baba, sometimes called the Master’s Prayer or the Universal Prayer. It is also a song and album by Pete Townshend.
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dgaw59 Mar 09 2011 at 7:43 AM |
Some are-some are not. Coltrane in "A Love Supreme" certainly was-McLaughlin has spent many years composing music of "praise", there are coutless other examples. Stravinsky’s "Rite of Spring" with its pagan idolitry might fall into this category. Music religiously inspired or not can touch an inner, divine spirit in the listener.
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barley Mar 09 2011 at 7:05 AM |
I cannot be certain of course, and you may be unfamiliar with the great sacred works of John Tavener, Arvo Part and Ralph Vaughan-Williams (to name but 3), but I’m fairly sure they were not, and are not, for hire!
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fredsimon Mar 08 2011 at 5:48 PM |
The vast majority of sacred music in the European classical repertoire is commissioned work for hire. There may be intersection between the composer’s beliefs, or not. But the church along with the royal court were the major employers of composers.
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fredsimon Mar 08 2011 at 4:05 PM |
Dazedcat, OK, fair enough. HAMBONE, how about you, since you praised Dazedcat’s post? I’m trying to understand how music proves the existence of God.
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barley Mar 08 2011 at 3:45 PM |
The volume and wealth of sacred music written over the centuries, from Palestrina to Tavener, hints at a strong belief in the Divine within the serious musical community. Whilst I’m sure atheism contributes its fair share of interesting composition, it clearly denies itself the open doorway of music reflecting the beauty of God in so many ways.
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Dazedcat Mar 08 2011 at 12:07 PM |
Fred: no I’d rather not, the basement is closed and I merely expressed my humble opinion here. No more than that.
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thehague Mar 08 2011 at 10:52 AM |
Hman and Barley, will listen to the Duruflé requiem.
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HAMBONE Mar 08 2011 at 8:28 AM |
Well said Dazedcat
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barley Mar 08 2011 at 2:26 AM |
The Durufle Requiem is also a favorite of mine
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fredsimon Mar 08 2011 at 1:18 AM |
Dazedcat wrote: "Actually music is proof that God exists." -- How so?
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hman01 Mar 07 2011 at 4:36 PM |
Barley and "the hague"-I love the Faure
Requiem.Are you familiar with the
Durufle Requiem? It’s also very beautiful
and God inspired IMHO !
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tokeyozi Mar 07 2011 at 2:48 PM |
Frankly, I don’t think
musicians in general are
looking for themselves or for
a higher entity while
composing. All they may be
looking for is a fairly large
amount of people to enjoy the
music they produce. And every
time I listen to Pat or E.S.T.
or Joni or Todd or the Dan or
the early Yes/Genesis albums
or some old Fab Four songs or
maybe even a few by Jagger and
Richards, I have this heavenly
experience; if you wish to
interpret this as a
‘religious’ experience, that’s
fine with me.
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Dazedcat Mar 07 2011 at 11:37 AM |
Actually music is proof that God exists.
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Bikenjazz Mar 06 2011 at 2:37 PM |
When brain and acoustical research can explain how a sevant can sometimes have abilities unknown and unclassifiable to the rest of us........perhaps that answer will lead to many more questions......we are just tapping at the surface of brain chemistry research as it relates to music and the musical experience.......as was said many years ago....."lost in a lost world", but the art created in the moment surely must be close to being a sacred thing.......and that sacred thing can be the music that moves us......the real jazz
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HAMBONE Mar 06 2011 at 12:03 PM |
I think music can be interpreted as a personal religious experience to some people, but it is completely personal. What one person may consider spiritual or religious may not get any reaction from another person.
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jk Mar 06 2011 at 1:21 AM |
pat has made his views on the subject
very clear.
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bluepno Mar 05 2011 at 11:00 AM |
Mozart said he would write a mass if his fiance, Constanze survived...voila the Great C- Mass. The only one.
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thehague Mar 04 2011 at 3:48 PM |
The Requiem is indeed divine, Barley.
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barley Mar 03 2011 at 1:32 PM |
Ydubini, people compose, interpret and listen to music of all genres in their own way. If yours happens to be religious then good for you. I’m fairly certain that The Glimmer Twins were not thinking about religion when they penned "Honky Tonk Women", but you never know. I certainly don’t have religious thoughts when I hear it. But then the Devil has the best tunes, or so they say. I feel close to God, however, when I listen to Gabriel Faure. Thank you for your interesting post.
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